DISQUS

L.L. Barkat · 2 years ago

Randy Ingermanson has an interesting set of posts up right now, on how just TWO paragraphs can betray our skills. Acquisitions editors, he argues, make their decisions pretty quickly, by covering very little text territory.

I think he's actually right. So why not get Randy's opinion, or some other professional's, on just two paragraphs of our "best work"? This could save a lot of money in the long run. (And make Mark a very poor man when he's ready to take on clients again. Sorry!)

Marcus · 2 years ago

Thanks for the comment, L.L.! You make me laugh.

Randy Ingermanson can't have enough kind words said about him. I have trouble navigating his site, though. Can you give us the direct link?

Also, most of Randy's stuff is for fiction writers. While most of my work is with non-fiction writers. (Or fiction writers producing non-fiction.)

I have worked with well-published writers who depend completely on editors. Publishing is always about selling books. And the ideas that sell in non-fiction often come from people who don't have the time to study writing resources like what Randy provides.

Eve Nielsen · 2 years ago

Great stuff, Mark! Gonna digest this. :)

Every Square Inch · 2 years ago

This is very informative to a writer wannabe like me.

Thanks

Charity Singleton · 2 years ago

I'm on the band wagon. This is a VERY helpful post. I've had the same question myself, Eve. Thanks for getting this ball rolling!

So, Mark, are you going to tell us when you put your shingle back out?

Marcus · 2 years ago

Thanks for the comments everyone. I always appreciate the feedback and the community that happens in the comments section.

Eve, you silly person, you've read it all before. (I did some line editing on it though.)

ESI, where do you go off calling yourself a writer wananbe? You are a writer. Just because you don't have 30 published books doesn't mean you aren't a writer. The title is a description of activity. Do you write? Then you're a writer.

If you want to be a professional writer, that's a bit harder.

Charity, I probably won't announce it in a post or anything. But I always respond to email inquiries. (Too many years of submitting to editors who don't.) See, I've got these two small kids and a wonderful wife. And I like to spend time with them...

Patrick Borders · 2 years ago

Wow. This is great, Marcus. Do you charge royalties if this happened to (mysteriously) show up in my marketing material? A wise person I know once shed some light on the myth of the author, and this post points out how many different ways people can contribute to a book project.

If you wanted to finish out the spectrum, you could add Collaborating, which is like Ghostwriting on steroids--the ghostwriter adds many of his or her own thoughts to the work. The Collaborator often ends up with an "and" instead of a "with" in the byline.

A client of mine who self-published a very successful book told me that he saw himself as a project manager. He hired the publicist, the printer, the writer (and I, in turn, hired the editor), and together we got his story out. He understood what some "writers" don't: it takes a team.

L.L. Barkat · 2 years ago

Here's the link.

http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007...

I guess I also feel that anyone who puts their work into the arena and gets a bite will get free editing. In other words, when a person gets an article published, it will be edited. When a person gets a book published, it will be edited (oh, painfully so!).

So the question remains... why would a person want to pay for editing, unless they are self-publishing? (And, in this case, the "editor" has a conflict of interest. She can't say, "this stuff is drivel," because she's being paid simply to edit it.) (Gosh, I hope you are still chuckling after this very direct set of questions.)

Eve Nielsen · 2 years ago

Mark,
There a bit more here than in the email! *grin* The links are a great asset too!

Thanks for the link LL, I was waiting for it :)

Marcus · 2 years ago

Patrick, I appreciate the comment! I was hoping some other editors would comment here.

The point about Collaborative editing is a good one. And a good reminder that ghosting--or any one-word editorial description--is almost worthless without a longer explanation of the process being described.

Maybe Al and Craver have some thoughts about that?

Marcus · 2 years ago

Eve, I'm glad you found the edits helpful. Mostly, I just trumped up the language by adding the buyer beware stuff at the beginning to motivate people to read.

Did it work?

Marcus · 2 years ago

L.L., you underestimate the thickness of my skin. It's directly proportional to the size of my ego. One advantage of a big ego.

Why would a person want to pay for editing, unless they are self-publishing?

A lot of them are self-publishing. This doesn't mean they are bad writers or unpublishable by mainstream publishers, though. (Sometimes it means that.) But other times, they already have a distribution platform through their business. And they know business well enough to know the cut publishers take.

A lot of business writers specifically are more interested in a credibility piece than a big seller. Of course, everyone hopes for a big seller.)

Other writers simply know that they only get one shot to make a first impression with a press. Their book proposal and their sample chapters are about to go for job interviews. They want an italian suit. And I provide it for them.

(And, in this case, the “editor” has a conflict of interest. She can’t say, “this stuff is drivel,” because she’s being paid simply to edit it.)

Ouch. I'm just an "editor" now? : )

I avoid the conflict of interest by being upfront with writers about the risk. I'm not discouraging, but I don't make false promises.

And these are people looking for editors. So its not like I'm some grammar dealer selling cheap doses of good usage on the corner. The question I have to ask is this, "Can I edit their book better than they can--or better than they will on their own?"

So far, I have always been able to answer yes to that question.

And we're back to my ego again.

Tom · 2 years ago

Mark: Having never needed editing, one doesn't see how one could presume that copyediting of any sort would be needed, let alone paid for. Certainly since copyediting is not needed by me, I can't help but feel sorry for those for whom copyediting is a foregone conclusion. Besides, most editors apparently aren't inciteful enough to see the suttle quality of my pros, anyhows.

P.S. - But if ideas are had by you of why I am not published oftener, it would be appreciated by me. Gratis, of course. :-)

Eve Nielsen · 2 years ago

Tom,
Funny.

Mark,
It totally worked! I got ya linked to my latest post :)

...They want an italian suit...I’m some grammar dealer selling cheap doses of good usage on the corner....-been watching those mob action flicks again, huh?

Marcus · 2 years ago

Tom, you took the words right out of my mouth! Hilarious, man. Thanks for the comment.

Eve, I love a good mob movie. Though the latest goodyear craze is pirates. (When I'm having a bad day, I just watch that video...)

Every Square Inch · 2 years ago

Marcus

I humbly receive your gentle rebuke and encouragement. In fact, I have co-authored two books on technology and numerous articles but I don't think they count.

I guess my original comment reflects my awareness that I'm a business executive who likes to write rather than someone with a formal writing background (whatever that means!).

Patrick Borders · 2 years ago

Chip MacGregor (I believe) has said that a writer needs two out of the following three things to get published: a great concept, a great platform, and great writing.

If you're a celebrity or a well-established public speaker, then you can combine a great concept with your platform and get published--even if the writing is junk. For the rest of us mortals without a platform, we have to do whatever it takes to make sure the writing is good before it's seen by an acquisitions editor.

Hence, any free, "on the publishing house" editing would take place only after two out of those three requirements were addressed.

Rebecca G. · 2 years ago

Thick skin/big ego - Bwahahaaaa!!!!!

"Most writers I know don’t like rewriting their work."

I had a student ask at a lecture once what my favorite part of the writing process was - I said, "Revising!" I wish I'd had a camera to capture those faces. It took me the next half hour to convince them I wasn't joking.

Eve Nielsen · 2 years ago

Rebecca,

I don't know if like it or not-but I am addicted to it. I love the polished look after the revising and editing :)

Shannon · 1 year ago

What about "structural editing"? I don't know if this exists, but I frequently do it for people. I'd say it's halfway between "book doctor" and "ghost-writing." It occurs when an author has a manuscript without a coherent and tightly organized structure--you pull it apart and reassemble it. Then, of course, you edit the reassembled draft.