I lost a job last year in a pretty suspect manner. One of my employers was a Christian.
I forgave them quickly. I continue to forgive them quickly whenever I have hard feelings about what happened (which left me out of work for 4 months and may have damaged my professional reputation). Was my first forgiveness inadequate, since I had hard feeligns again? I don't think so. However, it is human to feel angry over being wronged, and sometimes new things come to life.
What happened in Colorado was so much worse than anything I've gone through. I'm sure the director will go through a storm of emotions, up and down over and over. But we can establish the direction we're going to go at the start, to make for an easier time staying the path. If he starts with forgiveness, how does that compare with starting with anger, rage, bitterness, and things that are much more harmful - and harder to deal with after the fact.
As with you, my prayers are going out to these folks in Colorado right now.
David Rupert
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the Red Letter Believers mention. I live just a few miles from all of this and it has shaken many in the local Christian community. Its really easy to forgive someone for a crime -- until it hits you personally.
I think it is easy to forgive an unknown assailant -- but when you put a face and a name behind the perpetrator, then the anger and vengance can begin to grow.
So -- as the YWAM director did -- we should forgive first, and ask questions later. And if it's 'stupid', I'll let God sort that out.
(By the way -- the New Life Church killer is a homeschooler -- and could be one of our own.)
David Rupert WWW.REDLETTERBELIEVERS.BLOGSPOT.COM
Karl Edwards
· 1 year ago
Forgiveness is the only remaining option when there are no excuses on offer. It is probably more a gift we give to ourselves than anything we're giving to anyone who's wronged us. We can move on, deprive the "crime" and the perpetrators of the on-going power over us that anger and bitterness can sow into our souls. Forgiveness as means to "make nice" in a shattered relationship cruelly transforms the victim of the original wrong into the new criminal when they cannot or will not extend forgiveness. This is truly the gospel turned upside down.
Marcus
· 1 year ago
Jason, I'm a lot like you about forgiveness. I forgive people, but then I have to forgive them again and again. Or maybe I'm just tempted to be resentful, I don't know. Either way, forgiveness is not a one time decision that suddenly makes all of the pain go away.
David, you guys do awesome work over on your site. I really enjoy reading it now that we are sorting out our RSS feeds for the network. I hope I didn't sound like I was attacking you or your position in this post!
I absolutely think the YWAM guy made the right decision! What else could he do? But the question you asked, if we can somehow strip it away from this context, is a frighteningly honest and important question. What does authentic forgiveness look like? That I don't know.
I certainly didn't mean to suggest anybody was stupid. That was just an indirect quote from the book taken out of context. Oy. Bad literary criticism on my part.
David Rupert
· 1 year ago
Marcus
I know you didnt attack, so no need to apologize. But I already forgave you :) !
The bigger concept of this issue is what we hold on to. That's the "stupid" here. I hold on to wrongs from years gone by, to idle remarks, to relationships gone idle. I hold on to the hurt and the pain and wounds that have long since mended.
I need to forgive -- at the beginning. And then I need to remind myself that I have already given it up. The forgiveness needs to be genuine -- good reminder Karl -- that it should not be to just 'make nice.'
Prayers for the YWAM staff who will grapple with the after affects of this for years.
I hope it will draw many more to their awesome work. Some meant it for evil, but God used it for good!
Carl Holmes
· 1 year ago
I have had to forgive a lot over the last 18 months. I to lost a job at a reputable Christian organization in a very suspect manner. Then Ted Haggard (I attend new life) and now the shooting. I forgive continually because forgiveness is a process. It takes time.
We think it is suspect to forgive so quickly because we think that if we have not forgiven we are in the diametrically opposed position of hating them. That is not the case.
Thanks for all the prayers and support for my beloved church.
Heather Goodman
· 1 year ago
I think of Jesus hanging on the cross saying, "Father, forgive them." He forgave in the midst of the act.
Jason
· 1 year ago
I think about the Amish shooting last year, and how the people there genuinely LIVED forgiveness, blessing the family of the shooter specifically. That is the power of the gospel. And the world actually dropped its cynicism for a time and noticed.
rupzip
· 1 year ago
check out www.redletterbelievers.blogspot.com to read about the story of Jeanne Assam -- who was the security guard at New life and stopped this killer.
Her press conference as amazing -- "It was God working through my weakness."
A Musing Mom
· 1 year ago
Your post really resonates with me as I am in the processing of working my way through Nancy Leigh DeMoss' book, Choosing Forgiveness. You ask if a person can be too quick to forgive. But really, more often, aren't we too incredibly slow to forgive? Sure we can extend forgiveness verbally faster than our emotions can process the grief and the hurt. But is that such a bad thing? Taking a stance of forgiveness before reality hits sets us up to receive the grace we need to continue to forgive when the pain sets in. The normal pattern of waiting to process the emotions before forgiving opens us up to bitterness.
Just my two cents.
Robert Treskillard
· 1 year ago
Thanks, Marcus, for bringing up these issues.
Forgiveness is such an important topic, as all of us (a) need it, and (b) need to give it. Our freedom from the past depends upon both and the chains of unforgiveness are very cruel.
It is hard to fathom the hurt and pain that the friends and families of the victims and perpetrator are going through. Puts my own problems into perspective and shows what they really are--very simple.
My prayers are with them.
Marcus
· 1 year ago
Thank you all for these wonderful comments.
I especially appreciate AMM's idea that we use the words of forgiveness on faith that we will be able to find deeper forgiveness. Saying we forgive someone becomes an act of commitment to do so. I like that.
Tanya Dennis
· 1 year ago
All very interesting thoughts. I've been struggling with the whole concept of forgiveness, from definition to the execution. It's a mystery to me. I want to solve it and understand, but am afraid of what the resolution will require of me. I've had DeMoss's book (mentioned above by AMM) on my dresser for a couple months. Guess I should crack the cover.
Jeanne Dininni
· 1 year ago
Mark,
Heather took the words right out of my mouth: If Christ could forgive those who crucified Him while He still hung on the cross, we can never, ever forgive too soon. However, as you've stated, we can't stop there; we must then engage in the serious business of dealing with the underlying feelings engendered by the sin, hurt, or crime that's been committed against us.
I would suggest that, just as is the case in the Christian life, forgiveness is not the end; it's only the beginning.
All Comments
I forgave them quickly. I continue to forgive them quickly whenever I have hard feelings about what happened (which left me out of work for 4 months and may have damaged my professional reputation). Was my first forgiveness inadequate, since I had hard feeligns again? I don't think so. However, it is human to feel angry over being wronged, and sometimes new things come to life.
What happened in Colorado was so much worse than anything I've gone through. I'm sure the director will go through a storm of emotions, up and down over and over. But we can establish the direction we're going to go at the start, to make for an easier time staying the path. If he starts with forgiveness, how does that compare with starting with anger, rage, bitterness, and things that are much more harmful - and harder to deal with after the fact.
As with you, my prayers are going out to these folks in Colorado right now.
I think it is easy to forgive an unknown assailant -- but when you put a face and a name behind the perpetrator, then the anger and vengance can begin to grow.
So -- as the YWAM director did -- we should forgive first, and ask questions later. And if it's 'stupid', I'll let God sort that out.
(By the way -- the New Life Church killer is a homeschooler -- and could be one of our own.)
David Rupert
WWW.REDLETTERBELIEVERS.BLOGSPOT.COM
It is probably more a gift we give to ourselves than anything we're giving to anyone who's wronged us. We can move on, deprive the "crime" and the perpetrators of the on-going power over us that anger and bitterness can sow into our souls.
Forgiveness as means to "make nice" in a shattered relationship cruelly transforms the victim of the original wrong into the new criminal when they cannot or will not extend forgiveness. This is truly the gospel turned upside down.
David, you guys do awesome work over on your site. I really enjoy reading it now that we are sorting out our RSS feeds for the network. I hope I didn't sound like I was attacking you or your position in this post!
I absolutely think the YWAM guy made the right decision! What else could he do? But the question you asked, if we can somehow strip it away from this context, is a frighteningly honest and important question. What does authentic forgiveness look like? That I don't know.
I certainly didn't mean to suggest anybody was stupid. That was just an indirect quote from the book taken out of context. Oy. Bad literary criticism on my part.
I know you didnt attack, so no need to apologize. But I already forgave you :) !
The bigger concept of this issue is what we hold on to. That's the "stupid" here. I hold on to wrongs from years gone by, to idle remarks, to relationships gone idle. I hold on to the hurt and the pain and wounds that have long since mended.
I need to forgive -- at the beginning. And then I need to remind myself that I have already given it up. The forgiveness needs to be genuine -- good reminder Karl -- that it should not be to just 'make nice.'
Prayers for the YWAM staff who will grapple with the after affects of this for years.
I hope it will draw many more to their awesome work. Some meant it for evil, but God used it for good!
We think it is suspect to forgive so quickly because we think that if we have not forgiven we are in the diametrically opposed position of hating them. That is not the case.
Thanks for all the prayers and support for my beloved church.
Her press conference as amazing -- "It was God working through my weakness."
Just my two cents.
Forgiveness is such an important topic, as all of us (a) need it, and (b) need to give it. Our freedom from the past depends upon both and the chains of unforgiveness are very cruel.
It is hard to fathom the hurt and pain that the friends and families of the victims and perpetrator are going through. Puts my own problems into perspective and shows what they really are--very simple.
My prayers are with them.
I especially appreciate AMM's idea that we use the words of forgiveness on faith that we will be able to find deeper forgiveness. Saying we forgive someone becomes an act of commitment to do so. I like that.
Heather took the words right out of my mouth: If Christ could forgive those who crucified Him while He still hung on the cross, we can never, ever forgive too soon. However, as you've stated, we can't stop there; we must then engage in the serious business of dealing with the underlying feelings engendered by the sin, hurt, or crime that's been committed against us.
I would suggest that, just as is the case in the Christian life, forgiveness is not the end; it's only the beginning.
Jeanne