20 comments

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  Karl Edwards

  10 months ago

  I'd say the plot is the structure an author provides on which the characters develop. But as in life, it is the development, choices, interactions, foibles, strengths and ultimate changes of the characters themselves which are central.
  
  The question in life is not whether you are living within the plot correctly, but whether you are participating in the development of the plot as a free and responsible (if flawed) member.
  
  Thanks for the thought-provoking question!
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  Mark David Gerson

  10 months ago

  Hey, Mark: Just saw your tweet about this post and thought I'd check it out...not realizing that I was mentioned!
  
  I love your road trip metaphor, but I would respond by saying that there's more than one kind of road trip.
  
  There's the kind I think you're referring to: You're going from A to B and need to know how to get there in the quickest or, perhaps, most scenic way possible. For that type of journey, a map can be most helpful.
  
  But there's another kind: You get in the car and just drive, surrendering to the whims of the moment, trusting in the serendipities of the journey, uncovering the surprises inherent in a voyage of exploration and discovery, and knowing that the outcome will be magnificent. A map can also be helpful on that kind of journey, more to show you where you are, though, than where you're going.
  
  I've traveled and written in both ways and have had amazing (and frustrating) experiences using both methods. Neither type is superior to the other. Each is suited to particular needs and temperaments. Both can lead to powerful writing.
  
  Thanks for the post and for giving me an opportunity to share my thoughts.
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  L.L. Barkat

  10 months ago

  Oh. Groan. Must you talk about road maps on a day when I am working with a complete writing mess? And haven't the first bit of trust that I can find a map anywhere in my brain?
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  Marcus

  10 months ago

  Karl, you've challenged me to rethink what I mean when I use the word plot. So. I'm thinking.
  
  Mark, good point. For me poetry is often more like taking off to drive around the hill country with no goal except to use up some gas. It is "quite useless" as Wilde said. But for me essays, books, and stories need a definite trajectory or else I end up with something that is going to be a complete bear to revise.
  
  L.L., just keep your self in the chair and write. You can do it.
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  Sam Van Eman

  10 months ago

  I would rather watch a movie with excellent characters and no plot than one with a great plot and weak characters. Maybe it's because I can see characters better than I can see plot.
  
  It's kind of like going to someone's house for dinner. I'd rather be with excellent hosts who make nasty food than to eat a great meal made by lousy hosts.
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  Marcus

  10 months ago

  Sam, I really like the dinner party metaphor. I have to say that I'm not sure an excellent host could serve nasty food. That would make the person not an excellent host, right?
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  Robert Treskillard

  10 months ago

  Lets disconnect the two ...
  
  1) atmosphere at the dinner party (setting, decorations, food, schedule)
  2) the people attending
  
  A great dinner party would have both. In the same way, a great book would have both.
  
  That doesn't mean you couldn't have a good time and even really enjoy yourself if you only had one, but if you can get both, all the better.
  
  Plot and Character is best.
  
  "Which you prefer if one were missing" is the question, and I suspect that is individual.
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  Robert Treskillard

  10 months ago

  When I said "the people attending" I didn't mean people would attend or it would be empty.
  
  What I meant by that was whether or not they were interesting, fascinating, and enjoyable to converse with, etc.
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  Sam

  10 months ago

  Might I jump in to ask how you felt about Jack Kerouac's "On the Road" versus John Steinbeck's "Travels with Charley?"
  I kind of feel like I want a Character driving the story along a good Plot line (map) or I'll lose interest and bail.
  Best example of both to me is the recent movie version of "Bridge to Terabithia."
  -Sam
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  Marcus

  10 months ago

  Robert, I agree completely that both are important. I'm wondering about this from a writer's perspective, though. How does a writer emphasize both? Or which one do you emphasize more in your own writing?
  
  Sam, I have to confess that I've only read excerpts from "On the Road" and "Travels with Charley"! I hope that doesn't make me a bad person. And I boycotted "Bridge to Terabithia" (sorry, Walden) because I hated the book so much as a kid. Mean, mean spirited book.
  
  I should probably give it another chance.
  
  But, I'd say The Road is a good example of plot/character--emphasizing character. As well as Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell--which has a great plot, but ultimately emphasizes characters as the title suggests.
  
  So I guess I'm a character man.
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  Sam Van Eman

  10 months ago

  Re: the dinner metaphor, Marcus, I remember when my wife and I went to a certain couple's house for the first time. They were friendly, created good atmosphere and made us feel welcomed and comfortable...until dinner. The husband had a "great" family recipe for grilled chicken and we - being grilled chicken fans - were excited about a new entree.
  
  In came the aluminum foil-wrapped packets from the porch grill. But out came my surprise when I opened it and took the first bite. It was marinated and still floating in Aunt Jemina's pancake syrup.
  
  I took one bite and gagged (as discreetly as possible). It was my teary eyes afterward that betrayed me and forced a confession.
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  L.L. Barkat

  10 months ago

  That was comforting. Not that I got any more writing done. But the thought that maybe I could... comforting. I think this next book is just so different in how it's writing itself (I feel like a bystander), that I occasionally and completely lose my wits and my hope.
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  Marcus

  10 months ago

  Mmmm. Chicken pancakes. Why doesn't IHOP have that on their menu yet?
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  Sam Van Eman

  10 months ago

  Stop. I'm getting queasy.
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  Sam Van Eman

  10 months ago

  L.L.,
  Press on.
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  Heather Goodman

  10 months ago

  I'm a character girl.
  (Some would say I'm a character.)
  Others would point out that sometimes I have plot problems.
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• 

  real live preacher

  10 months ago

  I'm with you. About halfway through the 4th plot twist I turned to Jeanene and said, "It's too much. They tried to cram too much into it. The plot is a labyrinth and I'm having a hard time keeping up."
  
  I guess I'm either simple minded, or other people are amused by explosions and the ins and outs of specific scenes. I'm kind of a story line guy.
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  Sam

  10 months ago

  Marcus,
  I'm sorry - I was referring to the Walden movie version of "Terabithia" in my comments.
  My son, 10, (in honors Language Arts. sixth grade due to being skipped ahead from 3rd to 5th) agrees with your assessment of the book (I went to him because he's read it - I haven't) but does chalk up some of the meanness to the "kids can be so cruel" stereotype.
  We both still insist the movie incorporated an excellent plot driven by interesting main characters.
  I am curious about the author's other books and read the following at her website.
  "The challenge for those of us who care about our faith and about a hurting world is to tell stories which will carry the words of grace and hope in their bones and sinews and not wear them like fancy dress," - Katherine Paterson, author of "Bridge to Terabithia," from an online chat transcript posted at her site.
  That quote reminded me of L.L., by the way.
  Walden Entertainment remains my favorite production house and I so appreciate your interview with one of the executives whose name and title escapes me at the moment.
  -Sam
  -Sam
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  Sally Ferguson

  10 months ago

  That's an interesting question, because I thought I would never need to learn the difference. I'm a non-fiction writer, but am finding the need to learn the tactics of writing fiction. Plot and character development are important in any genre!
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  Kevin D. Hendricks

  10 months ago

  Great comments about Batman. I thought it was pretty convoluted when I saw it, and I was the one who had to explain plot details to several folks I saw it with after the movie was over. Though that's kind of what you get from Christopher Nolan--can't accuse the guy of telling a simplistic story.
  
  I'm a big fan of character. And maybe that's because I think a good character can sustain a story even with a so-so plot, but it's much harder to stick with a great plot if the characters are so-so. I think good characters make the plot more believable.
  
  Of course something still needs to happen. Characterization is really a character going through something. You can't watch a character grow if they don't do anything.
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